Dining across the dividers Gillian (on left) and Lucy — Gillian (left) and Lucy. All photographs: Joel Goodman/The Guardian

Dining across the divide: ‘She made me see working mothers from a different perspective’

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One feels women are under pressure to return to work after having children, the other was keen to go back. Can they find common ground?

Gillian, 52, Altrincham

Head shot of dining across the divider Gillian

Occupation Housewife, mother of five children

Voting record Tended to vote Conservative when younger; now Labour, and intends to vote Labour in the next general election

Amuse bouche Gillian used to be a member of Mensa

Lucy, 34, Manchester

Head shot of dining across the divider Lucy

Occupation Psychotherapist

Voting record Labour, Labour, Labour

Amuse bouche Went to Delhi on a gap year when she was younger, and felt much more at home there than in the UK

For starters

Gillian I had the croquettes with kale in them, then we had the same main course, which was beef cheek.

Lucy I had the scallops, with lightly toasted courgette pearls, baba ganoush, bacon hollandaise and a bacon crumb.

Gillian I thought she was really nice. She’s very firm on her opinions – she’s obviously thought hard about what she believes.

Lucy Gillian wasn’t afraid to be vulnerable in the conversation, and I value that, as it’s not easy talking to a stranger. She made me feel safe to do the same, so I think we got on to some useful areas this way.

The big beef

Gillian I was 22 when I had my first daughter. Even then – and I don’t think it’s changed that much – the first thing everybody said was, “When are you going back to work?” It’s good if you enjoy working, but a lot of jobs aren’t that interesting. With a lot of people these days where both parents work, they try to share responsibility, but it all falls on the woman.

Dining across the divide: ‘She is a big conspiracy theorist – I came out thinking, what was that?’

Lucy Ultimately, we agreed that the bottom line is that it is always the woman’s choice whether or not they work after having children – it felt important to get that out of the way early. Some of her points implied a lack of autonomy from the woman in deciding to go back to work – that is, women go back because they simply couldn’t afford not to. For me, returning to work was a financial decision, but it was also about restoring some of the parts of my identity I felt took a hit when I was on maternity. It was important for me that my daughter saw her mum as a mostly happy person who did things for herself.

Gillian She loves her job, that’s clear. So she made me see it from a different perspective. Lucy and her husband both work four days a week, so they’re there to look after their little girl. It’s good how they do share responsibility.

Lucy It was interesting listening to her talk about her experience of raising her children.

Sharing plate

Lucy Funnily enough, considering we started on such a different footing, there was nothing I said about Brexit that she didn’t acknowledge or agree with. She agreed that we were no better off, and in fact, much worse off.

Gillian I do feel a bit lied to over Brexit – no, I don’t know about lied to, but there’s no evidence of this extra money going into the NHS that I can see.

Lucy This just renewed my anger at the “Boris bus” fiasco, because people believed what they saw. I respected her for saying that, as that can’t be an easy pill to swallow. We agreed that the NHS needs protecting.

Gillian I don’t know if the NHS crisis is due to coronavirus, whether it’s the pharmaceutical companies – expensive cancer drugs taking money out of the NHS. But we do need to prioritise the NHS and make sure that it doesn’t get privatised.

For afters

Lucy There was another side to the conversation about women going back to work – she thinks two parents working is driving house prices up. Other than going through all the other factors that drive up prices, I couldn’t see how to counter that. It didn’t make a lot of sense. She has a background in insurance – I think she was coming from a supply and demand perspective.

Gillian I think Lucy’s got a point in the fact that a lot of housing is being bought up by private landlords now, and that is definitely forcing the prices up, particularly where she lives, nearer the city centre. But when people can pay more for housing, the prices go up. The economy is driven by people’s earnings and disposable incomes.