Victoria and Ranjit — Victoria (left) and Ranjit. All photographs: Fabio De Paola/The Guardian

Dining across the divide: ‘She pointed out that VAT on school fees is not going to affect Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson’

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Private school elites, pronouns and the right to strike – will a therapist and a business development manager find anything to agree on?

Victoria, 49, Derby

Occupation Cognitive behavioural therapist, currently for children

Voting record Predominantly Labour, but has also voted Green, Lib Dem, independent – anything but Tory

Amuse bouche When she was a child, she was on John Craven’s Newsround singing Happy Birthday to a gorilla during a school trip to London zoo

Ranjit, 54, Derby

Occupation Business development manager

Voting record Conservative until the age of 50, at which point she decided: “I didn’t agree with Brexit and they were going very rightwing”

Amuse bouche In the 1980s, she was on the gameshow Blockbusters, but never asked Bob Holness for a P

For starters

Ranjit We had calamari for starters and for the main I had pork medallions.

Victoria I had fishcakes, which were really nice. I thought Ranjit would be rightwing and anti-trans, but she wasn’t.

Ranjit I expected her to be middle class. She was pleasant, very well educated and well spoken – we got on surprisingly well.

The big beef

Ranjit I went to a comprehensive, but I sent my daughter to private school because she was shy and they offered a nurturing environment to help her to come out of her shell. People think only the elite send their children to private school, but there are a lot of working-class parents who make that sacrifice.

Victoria She was particularly concerned about Labour’s plan to put VAT on fees, and pointed out that VAT is not going to affect Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson, that it’s the people who are sending their children to the local private school who will be penalised.

Ranjit Victoria lives in a lovely village and went to a grammar school. The catchment area you live in dictates which school you go to. If you pay more for a house in a nice catchment area, you’re still effectively paying.

Victoria My concern is that while we have a private sector, it maintains elites and means things don’t improve in the state sector.

Sharing plate

Ranjit I feel strongly that public sector employees shouldn’t be able to strike. Their beef is with the government; yet the people who contribute to and use the public sector are being punished, even though we’ve got no control over what the government does.

Victoria It sounds severe to me to say someone shouldn’t have the right to strike, but she felt the recommendations of the independent pay reviews should be binding. So it wasn’t that she thought people’s working conditions didn’t matter, but she maintained they shouldn’t be allowed to strike, which I disagree with. Everybody should have the right to strike, otherwise it tips the balance too much towards employers.

For afters

Ranjit I haven’t got issues with people transitioning, but I don’t think children should decide; they should be adults when they decide.

Dining across the divide: ‘I enjoyed his company. But afterwards thought, hang on a moment … ’

Victoria Because of my job, I was able to reassure her a bit. There is quite stringent safeguarding in terms of hormone blockers. Treatment is also hard to access when you’re young because there are such long waiting lists – there are a lot of people who really need this, and they’re lost in a system that isn’t functioning well. Young people with gender dysphoria are at higher risk of suicide, so I’m really concerned about that. But I also think the point Ranjit raised about people being able to access things we don’t have much research on, and too early, is a legitimate concern and doesn’t make someone anti-trans.

Ranjit Most people from the older generation who call someone “he” or “she” instead of “they” don’t do it on purpose, it’s just a slip of the tongue. If someone’s called Sarah, it’s embedded in the minds of the older generation that that’s a female name. I think the younger generation can take it too harshly and should take a chill pill. Victoria said some people misgender on purpose. I don’t know anyone who has.

Takeaways

Ranjit Victoria opened my eyes in terms of mental health in children with gender dysphoria; that some children at a young age already have that strong feeling.

Victoria It’s important to meet people from outside your world. My friends think the same as me about things, so when we talk politics we’re generally ranting, and you miss more nuanced views. It’s good to be challenged.